Why Podcast Marketing Is a Magnet, Not a Megaphone with Kristen Nolan

Kristen Nolan (0:00): I will often see that I use specific words that I I overuse, and like sometimes. And so I'm mindful of that. But I also will tell you, like, I've listened to a podcast before, and I'm like, there is no way that this host is not AI because it's so perfect and polished. And, you know, we want to see real people out there. Right?

Tom Schwab (0:22): Welcome to the podcast interview marketing show where we explore big ideas with leading experts on how to grow your brand and business with targeted podcast interviews.

Tom Schwab (0:36): Welcome to the podcast interview marketing show. I'm Tom Schwab, and today we're talking about a mindset shift that changes everything about how you show up as a podcast guest. Now, too many authors, coaches, consultants, and founders still think of podcast interviews as a megaphone. They want more. They want more shows, bigger shows, more downloads, more exposure.

Tom Schwab (1:03): But exposure is not the goal. Business is the goal. Trust is the goal. Connection is the goal. My guest today is Krista Nolan.

Tom Schwab (1:14): She's one of our senior client account managers and strategists here at Interview Valet. She helps us reframe that podcast interviews not as broadcasting but as borrowed trust. When you show up on a podcast, you're not there to work the room, pitch your product, or impress everyone with your resume. You're stepping into a trusted conversation, one that the host has already built with their audience and sharing with you. The question is, will you use that opportunity to make noise or will you use it to become a magnet?

Tom Schwab (1:52): In this conversation, Kristen shares why strategy beats activity, why better interviews beat more interviews, and how the best podcast guests create connection to drive conversions. Kristen, we've talked before and you've talked a lot about the tactics, right? We've talked about things like the mechanics of confidence and storytelling, promotion, and even the funnels after a podcast interview. But before any of that works, something much more fundamental has to be true. We've been talking about this before, that mindset shift where you find yourself having with almost every new client that comes in that makes everything else click.

Tom Schwab (2:41): And can you put words to that, that name to it, of that fundamental thing of how you see podcast interviews?

Unknown Speaker (2:49): Yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of times people come and they want big shows. Right? They want on Joe Rogan. They want to be on those high level shows.

Kristen Nolan (2:59): And I think, and I believe that we need to stop thinking about podcast guesting as broadcasting and start thinking about it more along the lines of borrowed trust. Right? Every new client that I work with, whether they're promoting their book or they're trying to build authority or they're trying to reach a specific buyer, they all come in with that megaphone mindset. And so they wanna get on as many shows as possible. They wanna get on the big shows.

Kristen Nolan (3:25): They want to use, their podcast interviews as a megaphone. And so I think really having the ability to shift that mindset into it's not a megaphone, it's a magnet. And so we are, working to position them so that, you know, they're reaching the right audience. They're, feel they're making the, listeners feel like they're speaking directly to them. And, you know, just continuing to build upon that.

Tom Schwab (3:51): Yeah. And it's so right. It's like this idea of more, more, more, right? AI lets us create more than ever, but it's just noise and this idea of just a bigger megaphone turning it to 11. We've never seen that work with people, right?

Tom Schwab (4:07): As Eddie Yoon would say, you want to attract your super consumers, those people that buy what you offer and tell the world about that. It's really that trap of the megaphone, and you know, in the past we've covered this idea of why just telling your story is a mistake, right? And it's the salesy pitfall, you know, the whole idea of calls to action problem. But underneath all of those, there's that bigger issue and so many people fall into it. And what do you really attribute that to?

Kristen Nolan (4:48): So I think that, you know, and this goes back to the mindset that I mentioned previously, right? They're thinking like a marketer instead of thinking like a guest. So as I'm speaking with clients, I am coaching and helping them sort of see themselves a little bit differently, right? If we're showing up to a podcast as a guest and we're there to sort of be that used car salesman where we're, you know, promoting our product and we're very aggressive, you're probably not going to get a lot of traction from that. So I always try to explain to my clients that, you know, as a guest, you are there to educate, you are there to share.

Kristen Nolan (5:27): And, you know, we we don't want to be everything to everyone. We want to be in front of the right people. So, you know, when when a client comes to me and they say, you know, I want to get in front of entrepreneurs. I'm like, great. That's really broad.

Kristen Nolan (5:43): Let's talk about who are your ideal clients. Give me more specifics about them so that I can utilize that information to be more targeted, to get them in front of the right people.

Tom Schwab (5:55): Well, let's drill down on that a little bit more. That attraction, right? This idea of megaphone is I want to talk to everyone, right? Want to talk to the entire world. This more is better.

Tom Schwab (6:07): And, that is a fool's errand right there. That'll keep you on activity. Always that aspiration of the only thing I need is is bigger shows, more shows, all the rest of that. I always push back and say, you know, if you're not converting on the small shows, getting on bigger shows is just, you know, doubling down on failure. So what does it really look like when you're attracting the right clients, right?

Tom Schwab (6:36): What's the when you think about it from a magnet standpoint, you know, how do you think about the right people showing up and improving so that you can convert and really generating real business, you know, as opposed to just grinding it out. How do you think about that?

Kristen Nolan (6:55): Yeah. So I look at it along the lines of strategy, right? Everything comes down to strategy connection, I would argue. You know, and I mentioned this before, like we're targeting specific people, right? So that's kind of where the strategy comes in.

Kristen Nolan (7:10): And I think a lot of times people show up and go, Okay, I'm going to be a guest on a podcast and I'm going to let the host do all the work and I'm going to sit back and wait for people to reach out to me. And I definitely, disagree with that mindset. I would say that, you know, it is very important that you come on to a podcast as a guest to connect with the audience. And it starts in the very beginning. And I, you know, every, almost every podcast the host is going to say, tell us about who you are and how did you get to where you are today?

Kristen Nolan (7:41): And you know, so many people rattle off a resume and we don't want that, right? Like we want to be able to connect with the audience so they turn you up, they don't turn you off. And so I think starting at that point is so critical to create that, connection at the very beginning and then utilizing that strategy throughout the conversation, right? We're not here to sell. We're here to educate and we're here to provide value to that audience while you're borrowing the host trust to continue to be that magnet.

Kristen Nolan (8:10): And then, you know, going beyond the interview, right? It's not just recording and saying, Okay, I'm letting the host do all the heavy lifting. It's really getting in and saying, I'm going to stand alongside of the host and I'm going to, you know, promote and repurpose and share with my audience and continue to provide that value that goes well beyond when the recording stops.

Tom Schwab (8:32): And it's so much of how you show up. And I think of the old days of BNI, if anybody's ever been to one of those, a networking conference, right? And there's people that show up to make connections, to make relationships and get a lot out of it. And then there's the other ones that just show up to work the room, right? And it's so sales y and you know, internally we refer to some people as lazy guests, right?

Tom Schwab (9:02): So the lazy person at BNI is the one that shows up and you ask them how it went. Oh, it was great. I gave out 50 business cards. Oh, okay. A lot of activity and in their mind if the room was bigger, if there was just more people in there, it would have been a better experience for them.

Tom Schwab (9:24): Then the people that understand it are the ones that come ready to serve and connect. You ask them, well, how did it work out? Oh, it was great. I had great conversations with 10 people there. We've got follow-up meetings with them, and it's the start of a relationship.

Tom Schwab (9:43): It's this idea of, do you come up to be salesy in the carnival barker, or are you there to build the relationships, to build that trust? Are you seeing it as the start of something or just a one and done? We see so many people that just want to keep on more and more and more interviews but they don't get anything from the interview. So it's sort of, as we called in the Navy, doubling down on stupid.

Kristen Nolan (10:11): Yeah. It's it feels like there are some people that feel very transactional, right? And when you come in with a very transactional mindset of like, I'm a guest on your podcast, you give me all of this, I'm expecting to sit back, that mentality is not going to get you far. And so it's really and what I see from a client perspective is the clients that are going beyond the conversation, right? Are you connecting with the host on their social media channels?

Kristen Nolan (10:40): Are you, you know, sharing the podcast episode and connecting with other people there? Are you developing a relationship where if the host is your, you know, they have your ideal target audience, they would be a great partner, right? How can we partner together? How can we, you know, work on other projects? I had a client, that she was on a podcast and the host said, I love our conversation.

Kristen Nolan (11:02): I love your energy. Can you come and speak at an in person event for me? And so it was able to like compound from there. And so if you're coming in with a transactional, kind of that used car salesman approach, you're missing such a big piece, of that networking and of that continued relationship.

Tom Schwab (11:22): Yeah. And, I think who you're referring to is Julianna. And it was interesting because she got on the podcast and she talked to, I don't know, thousands of ideal clients, but then she got invited to the conference to actually talk to them in real life and build the relationships. So many people would say, I came to this breakout because I listened to your podcast, and was one of those things where she's like, she used it so well to drive business, to drive those relationships. But yet, some people, they just have that blind spot and they can't see that in themselves.

Unknown Speaker (12:00): So how do you look at that and help them understand that magnet versus megaphone dilemma?

Kristen Nolan (12:08): Yeah. So I think what happens is a lot of times people look at, being a podcast guest or podcast interview marketing like other marketing channels, right? So I will often hear people come to me and say, only want to be on podcasts that have a 100 rate and reviews. A podcast is not a product on Amazon. I can tell you myself, I I don't, you know, I listen to podcasts all the time.

Kristen Nolan (12:33): I don't typically leave reviews unless I'm asked for one. So as we're as we're thinking about things, you know, and maybe we're comparing, right? Maybe you've done a thirty second commercial where you take, you know, thirty seconds and you talk about yourself and your business and you're sort of rushed. That's entirely different. I look at podcast interviews as an opportunity to sit and have a one on one conversation.

Kristen Nolan (12:55): And it's a great opportunity to highlight what do you believe in? What do you reject? And who are you as a person so that you're able to, you know, you're doing better is better, not more interviews. You are having the right conversations with the right people in the right places so that you align everything up so that people listen to you and go, I loved listening to Tom on that podcast. I want to connect with him and learn more.

Tom Schwab (13:23): And I think even the framework you said, do you show up as a marketer? Do you show up as a salesperson? Or do you show up as a human? Right? And when you know, you put your salesperson hat on, it's what?

Tom Schwab (13:36): That always be closing? You try that on a podcast and the interview will never go live, right? Nobody shows up to a podcast because they just miss infomercials, right? They wanted another infomercial. So if you show up that way, it's not going to work.

Tom Schwab (13:53): The host is going to be insulted. They'll never go live, right? If you think about it as a marketer and it's all about numbers, right? Of I've got to have all of these metrics. Well, I don't know.

Tom Schwab (14:07): Marketers often are focused on activity whereas owners are focused on the value, the profits. And so I think showing up as a human, as a leader, as a thought leader is the way to do that and have conversations. I've had so many conversations with business owners where they're like, for the last decade we've been chasing this elusive algorithm, right, with SEO and you know we had to do all these different things and every month it was throwing more and more money at it and now I find out that that doesn't matter anymore, right, SEO is dead. And they said, they looked at it and said, You know, I've got to be able to understand this. Their point was when I have conversations with the right people, when I talk to our ideal client profile, ICP, when they get to know, like and trust us, when I build that relationship, business comes from that.

Tom Schwab (15:15): And so I would say don't show up as a salesperson, don't show up as a marketer, show up as a human, as a peer, as a thought leader, as the face of the company and that will drive long term business.

Kristen Nolan (15:30): Absolutely. And I think, you know, as we look at the landscape today, right? Like AI is emerging. We've we've talked a lot about how, you know, AI has sort of changed the landscape. And I think the best thing that someone can have is authenticity and connection.

Kristen Nolan (15:49): So if I'm showing up as a human and I am having a mindset of I'm here to educate, I'm here to share, you know, my service or my product. It comes from a place where people naturally go, that's a really great idea, right? And so I will often tell my clients, you know, as you're sort of framing that initial question on a podcast, you want to share a story that the listeners can see themselves in, right? So if I am on a podcast and it's catered to, let's say, home service based business owners, I'm going to give a story that they can relate to. I'm not going to have the same conversation with every single host, regardless of the of the podcast.

Kristen Nolan (16:30): I'm going to make my information that I'm sharing relatable to that audience so that they're able to fully understand what it is that I offer. And then I'm going to give them like, I can't tell you I've listened to quite a few podcasts and there are so many times that I'll go. Is this person talking directly to me? Like I feel like they like, there's just like this connection. And so when we're able to adequately share that information, we can then provide so much more value, right?

Kristen Nolan (17:02): We're not just like talking, we're having a conversation and we're we're providing value.

Tom Schwab (17:08): Yeah, and I think one of them builds upon itself and the other one just decays and fades away, right? There's so much of marketing where you spend a dollar today, it's gone tomorrow, right? I think of a Facebook ad, right? Or even sometimes a blog. I've never gotten business from a blog that I wrote years ago, but conversations, podcasts, interviews I have and it seems like one of them decays away, right?

Tom Schwab (17:37): It fades. But when you're a magnet, sort of compounds and you know, do you see a deeper reason in that and why you can, what you've seen with clients as they're doing this more and more?

Kristen Nolan (17:52): Yeah, I feel like as we're doing this, right, like it takes some time to sort of ramp up. And then when we talk about your digital footprint, right? So how do people view you on the internet? And I often give this analogy for a lot of different things, but I look at it as planting seeds, right? Like you talk about the blogs and different things like that.

Kristen Nolan (18:12): Those are all, sort of like seed planting things that I feel like, you know, use in conjunction and strategically help. But I think, you know, I had a client and, you know, when I went, I went to, you know, search for him in the beginning of his campaign, I will typically go, you know, who is XYZ client to get a better fit for who they are and what does it look like online for them? Right? And, I started doing this because I had a client that came to me and we were promoting his book. And he kept coming to me and be like, I don't understand, like, you know, the hosts have my book, but they're asking me questions, you know, about marketing and like, that's not what's in my book.

Kristen Nolan (18:50): But what it was is that his background was in marketing. So what we're looking at is how are you aligning your digital footprint, right? When you're going to be, you know, if people are going to search you and they say, is Tom Schwab? You know, are we having the right kind of things that are showing up online? Or is it something that we've done previously or, you know, different things like that?

Kristen Nolan (19:12): So I think it's so critical that we are mindful of like what's out there about us and how do we influence that? So podcast interviews are a great way to do that, because you're able to, you know, consist of, you know, hosts will will put the episode on their website, right? So you're getting, you know, LMO or AI indexing value, I'm not sure what the correct term is these days, I apologize. But you're able to really get those benefits of it to help kind of boost that, right? So if you're, if you're sharing a new book that maybe is unrelated to what you've previously done, you're able to then, you know, have some influence in, in how you are viewed online.

Tom Schwab (19:54): And, you know, your digital presence is so important today. As you make, make the point there, there are times where people, their past doesn't reflect their future, right? You see what they used to do, not what they're going to do. If you think it's hard for people to figure out who you are, imagine AI, right? And if it doesn't know who you are and what you're going to do or what you're doing, you can be, you know, digitally dead almost.

Tom Schwab (20:30): I'll give you an example. So many times we work with CEOs that they know they have to retire at a certain point. The board has told them, When you're 62, you retire, we're bringing the new person in. Well, you can go really quickly from the CEO of a major company to unknown, right? That all they know is you were the past person.

Tom Schwab (20:54): So they will intentionally start ramping up their new brand, their personal brand, their personal thought leadership as their old career is sunsetting in. That's one of the things that we talk also about clients with is that as you're putting out your content there, it's got to be fresh. It's got to be new. If you're still talking about the same things that you were, oh, you know, a year ago. Boy, that's, that's probably a commodity in the market now.

Tom Schwab (21:30): Right? So you should always be talking about what's next, what you're thinking about, because AI can give us the answers about the past but only people can give us the vision of the future. So I think that's a key point there too. Then the other thing that you mentioned in there I've heard referred to as proof of life. Right?

Tom Schwab (21:53): With so much AI content out there, there's all this information, right? And you're like, was this written by AI? Right? I've never seen Tom use em dashes or semi colons before. And you can just start to get that feel for it.

Tom Schwab (22:11): I think that breaks trust. All of a sudden you start sounding like worse than a marketer, an AI marketer or an AI salesperson, right? Better to sound like a person and that's what conversations are doing.

Kristen Nolan (22:25): Yeah, and I think that's what makes you relatable, right? Like if you sound too polished, and I know and I just use an but I know one of the, you know, we do an interview analysis for clients, right? And so I will often see that I use specific words that I overuse, and like sometimes. And so I'm mindful of that. But I also will tell you, like, I've listened to a podcast before and I'm like, there is no way that this host is not AI because it's so perfect and polished.

Kristen Nolan (22:58): And, know, we want to see real people out there, right? Like anyone can create, you know, this AI persona and talk about things, but really being able to be true to who you are and what you believe in and sharing that on a podcast, episode with someone. I always say the best podcast that I enjoy listening to feel like two, two people, two strangers in a, in a coffee shop. And I'm just sort of sitting there listening to them have a conversation and it provides me value and I learned something. And I, you know, I feel like that is something that we need in today's age, right?

Kristen Nolan (23:36): Like we need that authenticity. We need that connection. And so really leaning into that.

Tom Schwab (23:42): And, it's, more we get automated, the more human stands out with that. And so to wrap it up here, know, if someone's nodding along today, they're like, yes, stop the megaphone, stop making noise and start attracting people. And they recognize that the megaphone model isn't working and they're looking to make that shift, but they don't know where to start. Know, what's the that practical first step in going from megaphone marketing to magnetic attraction?

Kristen Nolan (24:20): Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, first of all, I think we need to look at it as, you know, the magnetic model, it compounds, right? The megaphone is just spending, whether that's, you know, money for ads or time for, you know, just kind of doing more interviews and hoping that something sticks. I think that the real core value of all of this and how you, you know, utilize the magnetic model is that you have a strategy behind it, right? Anyone can go out there and draft a couple of AI things.

Kristen Nolan (24:52): Maybe they get on a couple of podcasts. They go out there and they have a conversation and they go, Okay, I've checked that box, right? It's so important to have a strategy behind it and to have a plan on how do execute that strategy, right? Are you getting in front of the right people? Are you having the right conversations?

Kristen Nolan (25:12): Are you doing all of the things to be someone that people want to come and speak with? And so I feel like really at the core of that is getting very, very, you know, in-depth with being most strategic with it.

Tom Schwab (25:29): Without strategy, it's just activity. And I say this often is that most people that are doing podcast guesting it's an expensive hobby hobby and then they wonder why it doesn't work right there's a difference between just going out and playing golf and being a professional golfer. Right? One's an activity. The other one is a strategy.

Tom Schwab (25:55): There's a way to do that. So, Kristen, thank you so much. What's ordinary to you is amazing to others, I hope this helps people to move from just making noise to attracting their ideal clients.

Unknown Speaker (26:08): Thanks, Tom.

Tom Schwab (26:10): What a great conversation with Kristen Nolan. The big takeaway I have is that podcast interviews should not be a megaphone, but a magnet. The megaphone mindset says, get me on more shows, get me on bigger shows, let me talk to everyone. But the magnetic strategy says, put me in front of the right people with the right message in the right conversations so trust and real results can compound. That is what makes podcast interview marketing so powerful.

Tom Schwab (26:45): You're borrowing the host trust, but you have to honor that trust. You do that by showing up as a human, not as a salesperson, not as a marketer. You educate, you connect, you tell stories the listeners can see themselves in. You continue the relationship after the recording stops. So here's your next step.

Tom Schwab (27:09): Before your next interview, ask yourself, who exactly am I here to serve? And what conversations do they need to hear today? Not what do I wanna promote or what do I wanna prove, but what do they need? Because without strategy, podcast guesting, it's just an activity. But with strategy, every interview can become a seed that grows your brand, your authority, and your business.